There Are More With Us
Than There Are Against Us
By Jonathan Mitchell

This title came from 2 Ki. 6:16, where the KJV records Elisha telling his servant,

"Fear not: for they that are with us are more than they that are with them."

The incident came about over a matter of intel during a time where the king of Syria was making war against Israel. Elisha had warned the king of Israel to not pass by a certain place because the Syrians were there. When the Syrian king learned that Israel had been warned, he suspected that he had a spy, for Israel, among his servants. His servants denied this and informed their king that the prophet Elisha tells the king of Israel what the Syrian king

"says in his bedchamber."

So this king sends "a great host" including horsemen and chariots to go and capture Elisha, after surrounding the city where Elisha was presently located.

The next morning, Elisha's servant arises and sees the city surrounded by horsemen and chariots. So the servant asks Elisha,

"Alas, my master, what shall we do?"

Then Elisha responded,

"Do not be afraid, for they that are with us are more than they that be with them."

Now here is the take-away point from our relating this story:

"So Elisha prayed, saying to Yahweh, 'Please, open his eyes so that he can see.' Then Yahweh opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. Now consider this: the mountain was full of horses and chariots of Fire, round about Elisha" (vs. 17).

Read the rest of the story, it ends well.

How are we to understand this sight, which Elisha's servant was given to see? We suggest that what he saw falls into the category of being a visionary experience. It was apocalyptic, in nature. Notice that these horses and chariots of Fire were a theophany that corresponded to the literal horses and chariots of the Syrian host - but these representations of "Yahweh's army" outnumbered the Syrian army. The story does not tell us that this "heavenly host" actually did anything, unless they were used, individually or as a group, to blind the Syrians (vs. 18 states that Yahweh temporarily blinded the men, at Elisha's request).

An important thing to observe, in this incident, is that there were no opposing, negative or evil "spirit" horses or chariots in the atmosphere on those, or other, hills. There were only God's host (horses and chariots of Fire, which could not be seen, except with spiritual vision, or by God opening the eyes of a person to see them) in the atmosphere, on the hills surrounding Elisha and his servant, and then the flesh horses and physical chariots and soldiers on the ground, facing against, and surrounding, Elisha.

Now we might say that the horses and chariots of Fire were

"a great cloud of witnesses" (Heb. 12:1).

Are we to understand that some sort of expression or reality of this situation continuously exists? We have this witness, in Ps. 34:7,

"A [corporate?] agent of Yahweh will habitually be pitching a fortified encampment, in a circle, around the folks habitually reverencing Him (showing respectful awe and deferential fear), and so, it will be habitually rescuing them, dragging them out of danger" (LXX, JM).

Might this situation, with Elisha, be a demonstration of what Paul affirms, in Acts 17:28?

"For you see, within the midst of and in union with Him we continuously live (or, as a subjunctive: could be constantly living), and are constantly moved about and put into motion, and continue existing (experiencing Being)."

All of these are apocalyptic, figurative pictures, or they use metaphorical language to present an idea of the realm of God - of which, ironically, Jesus said that it resides within us. But, seen through the lens of faith, they represent realities in, and of, God.

Nahum 1:3 offers us another poetic picture of God being active in our atmospheres and environments:

"As for Yahweh, in storm-wind and in tempest is His way, and clouds are the dust of His feet."

Jesus made an apocalyptic statement to Nathaniel, in Jn. 1:51,

"It is certainly true (or: Count on it). I am presently laying it out, saying to you folks, you will proceed seeing the heaven (or: sky; atmosphere) being one that is opened back up again, and 'God's agents (the folks with a message from God) repeatedly ascending (continuously and progressively stepping back up again) and then habitually descending (repeatedly and progressively stepping down)' [cf Gen. 28:12] upon the Son of the Man."

Did something like this happen on the Mount of Transfiguration? Keep in mind that Jn. 1:51 is symbolic language. With the symbolic language re: being born again, or born back up again, from above, in Jn. 3:3-7, consider 3:13, in the light of 1:51, above:

"Furthermore, no one has ascended (or: stepped up) into the heaven (or: atmosphere) except the One descending (or: stepping down) from out of the midst of the atmosphere (or: heaven): the Son of Mankind (the Son of the human [= Adam]; Humanity's Son; the Son of man; the human being) - Who is continuously being (or: constantly existing) within the midst of the heaven (or: theatmosphere). [with p66 & p75, Aleph, B and others: And yet not even one person climbed up into heaven (or: the sky), if not that person at one point descending from out of the midst of heaven (or: the sky) - the Human Being.] [cf 16:28, below; Prov. 30:4; Acts 2:34; 1 Cor. 15:47; Eph. 4:9]

At the baptism of Jesus, Mat. 3:16-17 instructs us:

"Now upon being immersed (baptized), Jesus, set for goodness (placed for well-being), immediately stepped back up from the water - and now look and consider! - the heavens at once opened back up again! [or, with other MSS: the atmospheres were opened up to Him!] Then He saw God's Spirit (Breath-effect, which is God; a Breath from God) - as if it were a dove steadily descending - progressively coming upon Him. [cf Gen. 1:2; Isa. 11:1-5, 10-11] And then - look and consider! - a Voice (or: sound) from out of the midst of the atmospheres (or: the skies and the heavens), repeatedly saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved One in Whom I take pleasure and imagine thoughts of well-being."

Then, in Mat. 17, we read:

1. Then after six days, Jesus proceeds to take along (or: at His side) Peter, Jacob (James) and John, his brother, and progressively leads them up into a high mountain, privately, and to be in accord with what was His own.

2. And then, all of a sudden, He was transformed (transfigured; changed in external form and appearance) and His face radiated light, like a lamp, and shone like the sun. His outer garments also turned white - bright as the light! [cf 2 Cor. 3:18]

3. Next - consider this! - Moses and Elijah, continuing in a discussion and conferring together with Him, were seen by them [i.e., the disciples].

The very atmosphere of that mountain was populated with God, and prophets. In Lu. 2:8-14, we have agents from Yahweh in the atmosphere of shepherds in a field. In Acts 9, the risen Jesus calls out to Saul, from the atmosphere, when Saul was on the road to Damascus. This was proof of what Jesus had said to His disciples:

"I will not be leaving you abandoned or be sending you off as orphaned ones (or: folks without family). I am progressively and repeatedly coming to (or: toward, and face to face with,) you people" (Jn. 14:18).

"My Father will continue loving, fully giving Himself to, and urging toward union with, him, AND, facing toward him, WE will continue coming to him and will be progressively making (constructing; forming; creating; producing) a home (abode; dwelling place; place to stay) with him (or: at his side and in his presence)" (Jn. 14:23).

And Dan Kaplan points us to what we read in Heb. 13:5,

"for He Himself has said,'I can (or: could; would) by no means let you go (or: let up on you; send you back; release my grip on you; desert you; let you sink again), neither by any means may (or: could; would) I leave you down within the midst (leave you in the sphere of helpless rejection; forsake or fail you).'" [cf Gen. 28:15; Deut. 31:6; Josh. 1:5; Phil. 4:11]

Judah (aka, Jude) quotes an enigmatic statement from Enoch:

14. But Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied to, and among, these folks, saying, "Behold, the Lord [=Yahweh] came (or: comes and goes) within His set-apart myriads (or: in union with innumerable holy multitudes, which are Him; or: centered in tens of thousands of devoted people from Him),

15. to form a separating (or: do evaluating and make a deciding; perform a sifting and produce a judging) which corresponds to, and falls in line with, all people (to the level of everyone), and, at some point, to try, test, prove, and discipline (or: search thoroughly, cross-examine, and expose) the irreverent and impious folks concerning all their irreverent works (impious activities; sacrilegious deeds) which they irreverently did, and concerning all the hard and harsh things which irreverent, impious outcasts (folks in error; sinners; failures; folks who make mistakes and miss the target) spoke against Him."

In Jude 14, above, the verb "came" is in the aorist tense, the "fact tense," and can be rendered as a simple past tense, or a simple present tense - thus the alternatives on offer. The verb means both "to go," and "to come," so I conflated these meanings, in the parenthetical expansion.

Consider John's situation on the Isle of Patmos, in Rev. 1:10. He was

"in the Spirit," and he heard a loud voice behind him "that sounded like a trumpet."

There, in 1:7, we read,

"He is continuously (or: presently; repeatedly; habitually; progressively) coming and going with the clouds"

[note: The Greek verb is in the present tense, which indicates, repeated or habitual action, here. Also, I again give both meanings - you see, if He repeatedly comes, it means that He has to repeatedly go, between the repeated comings.]

Are those "clouds of witnesses" with which He comes and goes? Are they the "atmospheric (heavenly)" part of that to which Paul refers, in Eph. 3:14-15?

"On account of this (or: From this grace or thanks), I continually bend my knees (= in loyalty, respect and reverence) to (toward; or: face-to-face with) the Father [other MSS add: of (or: Who is) our Lord Jesus Christ], forth from Where (or: out of the midst of Whom) every FAMILY (lineage; kindred; descent; paternal group), within heaven and upon earth (or: in [the] sky or atmosphere, and on [the] land), is one after another being named (or: spoken of, or to, by name; or: designated)." [cf Acts 17:28-9]

Following the resurrection of Jesus, Lu. 24 records an encounter with two members of the Father's family, who apparently became visible from the atmosphere. The context is the tomb where Jesus had been placed, and the women who had brought spices and ointments for Jesus' body. This was what they encountered:

They found more in that tomb than they had expected to see. They found two witness that were "with them," and even with there being manifested just two of them, they were more than those who had been against Jesus and His followers.

The reality of the atmospheres (which are a part of this planet) being populated with people has Scriptural witness from Gen. (the atmosphere of the Garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve have experiences with God), to God and agents visiting Abraham, on through to Rev. 21, where, in this Unveiling, we observe John's vision of the Lamb's wife (metaphorically symbolized as a city, the New Jerusalem) DESCENDING "out of heaven (the atmosphere), from God." The heavenly (spirit realm) messenger who spoke with John, in Rev. 22:9, explained to John that:

"I am your fellow-slave, even of (belonging to; from among) your brothers - of (or: belonging to and from among) the prophets and of (even from among) those continuously keeping, observing and maintaining the words and messages of this scroll." [cf Rev. 19:10]

Consider the experience of Paul, in Acts 27:23,

"because there stood by me, in this night, an agent of (or: a messenger from) the God from Whom as a source I continue existing (or: of Whom I am and to Whom I belong) and to Whom, for Whom, in Whom, and by Whom, I perform as a servant."

In Acts 12, Herod put Peter in prison. But the story does not end there:

6. So when Herod was being about to bring him forth (or: produce him [to them]), during that night Peter - being bound with two chains - continued sleeping between two soldiers, besides [the] guards before the door [who] continued watching over and guarding the prison (or: jail).

7. And yet, look, and consider this! An agent of and from [the] Lord (or: [Christ's or Yahweh's] messenger) made a stand upon [the scene; D reads: stood by Peter], and light shown (or: a light shines) within the midst of the room (= prison cell). Now tapping Peter's side, he (she; it) raised him up, while saying, "Get up quickly!" Then his chains at once fell off from [his] hands.

8. Now the agent (messenger) said to him, "Gird yourself (= Fasten your garments with your belt, so as to be ready to walk) and bind on your sandals." So he did so. Then he (she; it) says to him, "Throw your outer garment (robe; cloak) around [you] and keep following me."

9. And thus, after going out, he continued following, and yet he had not seen or perceived so as to know that the [incident] presently happening by means of the agent (messenger) is real, so he continued thinking (imagining; supposing) [himself] to be seeing a vision (effect of something seen).

10. Now, after passing through [the] first guard station, and then a second one, they came upon the iron gate, [which] now is leading into the city - which automatically (spontaneously; by self-acting) was opened up to (or: for) them. And so, having gone out, [D adds: they descended seven steps and then] they proceeded [along] one narrow street (lane; alley) - then suddenly the agent (messenger) stood away (or: withdrew; departed) from him.

11. Next, Peter, suddenly coming to be within (= coming to) himself, said, "Now I have truly seen, and thus am really aware, that the Lord [= Yahweh or Christ] sent forth His agent (messenger) out on a mission, and he extricated me (plucked me out) from the midst of Herod's hand (= power and authority), and from the entire anticipation of the Judean people (or: from everything the people of Judea were focusing their thinking to and looking toward)."

These are but a sampling of the evidences (for people being in our atmosphere) which can be found in both the OT and the NT. So, we conclude that indeed there are more with us, in the realm of spirit - that is, in our atmospheres, than there are against us in our natural realm of everyday living.

A parting thought: just as with the story of Elisha, above, having no picture of "demonic spirit forces" surrounding him, in Rev. 20:9-10, the stage is set with Gog and Magog gathering the nations (Gentiles; ethnic multitudes - vs. 8), whose number is as the sand of the sea. And where do they gather?

"And they ascended (or: climb up) upon the breadth of the Land (or: territory; earth) and came around the encampment (or: surround the fortress) of the set-apart (holy; sacred) folks, even the Beloved City [other MSS: even the city of the set-apart ones]. Then Fire descends (or: came down) from God, out of the atmosphere (or: sky; heaven), and devours them (eats them down)."

So, once again, we have a picture of humans, this time gathering around Jerusalem - i.e., on the earth, but their opposition is once again God, who operates within the atmosphere, and this time not just blinding them, but devouring them. The Beloved City was defended by God, from out of the atmosphere that blanketed Jerusalem (or: the saints, the called-out covenant community), in this picture. The enemies are on the earth; God is in the atmospheres. They each operate in different realms. One is the realm of the domination system; the other is the realm of God's Kingdom.

Now you might ask, "Well, what about Rev. 12:7-8,

'And there was war in heaven'?"

We suggest that this chapter is visionary symbolism, starting in vs. 1 with the woman who was clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet (metaphors of a cosmic setting, but which speaks of human affairs - think of Joseph's dream of the sun and the moon bowing down to Joseph, and his father rightly interpreted those "heavenly bodies" as being figures of himself and Joseph's mother - Gen. 37:9-10).

Many see this as a picture of Israel who brings forth the Christ. There are also other interpretations, but none take this literally, any more that there is a literal seven-headed dragon, in vs. 3, whose tail drags a third of the literal stars to the earth. This is a picture of spiritual conflict - but it is the spiritual realm within people, as opposed to a conflict of "flesh and blood" (Eph. 6:12).

Verse 5 tells of the Messiah's birth and enthronement. We suggest that "Michael (whose name means 'He who is like God') and his agents (folks with the message - vs. 7)" are symbols of Christ and His body, and this verse pictures the victory of Christ (vss. 8-9), and then vs. 10 proclaims, "Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of His Christ." There are more with us than there are with them, as this apocalyptic picture shows us.

Jonathan

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